The Biden administration’s first legislative priority is a $1.9 trillion economic rescue package. It’s the kind of mega-package where the individual policies contained inside it — a $15 minimum wage, $1,400 checks, a huge child tax credit expansion, a $50 billion virus testing infrastructure — would be big deals on their own. But together, this would be one of the most consequential packages ever passed. So there’s a lot to talk about here. And who better to talk about it with than my now-colleague Paul Krugman? We dig into the details of the plan and then spiral off into some other topics I wanted to run by the nearest Nobel laureate: the major rethinking of debt and deficits among left-of-center economists, the differences between Keynesians and Modern Monetary Theorists, how Krugman made a bunch of money off Bitcoin (it’s not how you’d think!), why progressives need a better theory of technological change, Krugman’s favorite indie bands of the mid-2000s, and more. Mentioned in this episode: “Notes on the Coronacoma (Wonkish)” by Paul Krugman “Why Markets Boomed in a Year of Human Misery” by Neil Irwin and Weiyi Cai “Who’s Afraid of Budget Deficits?” By Jason Furman and Lawrence Summers “Public Debt: Fiscal and Welfare Costs in a Time of Low Interest Rates” by Olivier Blanchard “America’s anti-democratic Senate, in one number” by Ian Millhiser